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up next, how the fiscal cliff debate affects your wallet, your business or your favorite toys for that matter. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ (announcer) when subaru owners look in the mirror, they see more than themselves. so we celebrate our year-end with the "share the love" event. get a great deal on a new subaru and 250 dollars goes to your choice of five charities. by the end of this, our fifth year, our total can reach almost 25 million dollars. it's a nice reflection on us all. now through january 2nd. is bigger than we think ... sometimelike the flu.fer from with aches, fever and chills- the flu's a really big deal. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies. prescription tamiflu attacks the flu virus at its source. so don't wait. call your doctor right away. tamiflu is prescription medicine for treating the flu in adults and children one year and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing. have serious hea
up next, how the fiscal cliff debate affects your wallet, your business or your favorite toys for that matter. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ (announcer) when subaru owners look in the mirror, they see more than themselves. so we celebrate our year-end with the "share the love" event. get a great deal on a new subaru and 250 dollars goes to your choice of five charities. by the end of this, our fifth year, our total can reach almost 25 million dollars. it's a nice...
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cliff. but his actions have not matched his public statements. members of his own party seem quite comfortable with sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> the speaker's remarks riled the left and provoked this response from senate majority leader harry reid. >> he says that democrats have got to get serious about cuts, spending cuts. where is the disconnect, then? >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> with only a handful of legislative days left on the congress's calendar before the looming fiscal cliff becomes a raw reality, will the president and house gop find a way over the latest road black and back to the bargaining table? >> why did the white house decide to have this as their opening volley when they knew the response would be a negative one that they drew? >> was it hardball opening? yeah, of course it was. the question is, what's the counteroffer? >> i would imagine there has to -- tim geithner is too smart of a guy in this administration is filled
cliff. but his actions have not matched his public statements. members of his own party seem quite comfortable with sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> the speaker's remarks riled the left and provoked this response from senate majority leader harry reid. >> he says that democrats have got to get serious about cuts, spending cuts. where is the disconnect, then? >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> with only a handful of legislative...
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congress hearing from all sides on the fiscal cliff and heading up a coalition of business and economic leaders in the fix the debt campaign, where do you sense the players are right now in terms of whether they'll go interest a small deal, band-aid approach or grand bargain. >> the good news is while it's a nail biter, that's for sure, we all wish we could solve some of these problems without going to the brink like we do in politics, i think they're going to get this resolved and be able to put in place a plan not just to avert the fiscal cliff, but importantly to really tackle the deficit and debt problems in this country. i am concerned that deal won't be big enough. is it going to be small or medium or big. we need a plan big enough to fix the deficit problems and make sure the debt is no longer growing faster than the economy. we're not going to be able to balance the budget in the near future because the fiscal hole is so big. you want to make sure the debt is not growing faster than the economy. that's going to take $4 trillion in savings. you need all parts on the table and con
congress hearing from all sides on the fiscal cliff and heading up a coalition of business and economic leaders in the fix the debt campaign, where do you sense the players are right now in terms of whether they'll go interest a small deal, band-aid approach or grand bargain. >> the good news is while it's a nail biter, that's for sure, we all wish we could solve some of these problems without going to the brink like we do in politics, i think they're going to get this resolved and be...
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and the fiscal cliff negotiations are not going well at all. on thursday republicans leaked the white house's opening bid and we have some exclusive tape of that. >> all right. somebody will have to play a little game. we'll play yours. so let's just say that you paid me because it is in your interest to pay me. but i want your answer and the money by noon tomorrow. >> senator, you can have my answer now, if you like. my offer is this -- nothing. >> okay. maybe that's not actually exclusive tape of the budget negotiations, but it is kind of the spirit of the thing. president obama's opening bid to the republicans goes like this. first democrats get a trillion dollars in tax revenue by letting the high-income bush tax expire. that hatch matches the spending cuts in the 2011 debt ceiling deal. a trillion for a trillion. then dem krts and republicans get 6 billion worth of stuff they want. democrats get 6 billion from tax reform and republicans get 600 billion in spending cuts of which 350 mill billon comes from medicare and other health problems
and the fiscal cliff negotiations are not going well at all. on thursday republicans leaked the white house's opening bid and we have some exclusive tape of that. >> all right. somebody will have to play a little game. we'll play yours. so let's just say that you paid me because it is in your interest to pay me. but i want your answer and the money by noon tomorrow. >> senator, you can have my answer now, if you like. my offer is this -- nothing. >> okay. maybe that's not...
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get their act together and deal with the fiscal cliff. brace yourself for a job number that could be even lower than the already weak forecast. i hope i am wrong about that. from the cnn money newsroom in new york, i'm ali velshi. that's it from me. same time tomorrow. i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. with snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this cool. you're not filming this, are you? aw! camera shy. snapshot from progressive. test-drive snapshot before you switch. visit progressive.com today. plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. social security are just numbers thinkin a budget.d... well, we worked hard for those benefits. we earned them. and if washington tries to cram decisions about th
get their act together and deal with the fiscal cliff. brace yourself for a job number that could be even lower than the already weak forecast. i hope i am wrong about that. from the cnn money newsroom in new york, i'm ali velshi. that's it from me. same time tomorrow. i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. with snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this...
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. >>> americans could be singing the blues if congress doesn't act to avert the fiscal cliff. the longer congress waits the more complicated for businesses to figure out how much to pay workers early next year. the confusion could cost employers money, especially small businesses which use payroll software which takes time away from running their business. starbucks ceo howard schultz agrees. >> this single issue has a seismic affect on the rest of the world that we have never been as connected in the domino effect of a bad outcome here will have significant negative consequences domestically and around the world. >> negative consequences, seismic or not, none is stopping starbucks plans for 1,500 more cafes across america next year. and just as many around the world. but we get his point. >>> speaking of the fiscal cliff, we know what the parameters of a deal in congress will look like, right? on taxes, republicans give in to raise taxes on the wealthiest 2% and democrats will agree to rein in tax breaks, right? democrats are fighting hard to preserve the tax deduction for st
. >>> americans could be singing the blues if congress doesn't act to avert the fiscal cliff. the longer congress waits the more complicated for businesses to figure out how much to pay workers early next year. the confusion could cost employers money, especially small businesses which use payroll software which takes time away from running their business. starbucks ceo howard schultz agrees. >> this single issue has a seismic affect on the rest of the world that we have never...
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the fiscal cliff is the maximum of what ghkts want. you've got howard dean saying we need to raise taxes on everybody, not just the rich. steny hoyer says the same thing. i think republicans have a better handle on the other side, but it's the democrats in transition on the mechanism. >> more on this story coming up. erick, donna, david, guys thank you. authorities trying to catch up with technology. in this case it's all about text messages and finding a way to use them against criminals. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about low-cost investing. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 at schwab, we're committed to offering you tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 low-cost investment options-- tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like our exchange traded funds, or etfs tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 which now have the lowest tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 operating expenses tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 in their respective tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 lipper categories. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 lower than spdr tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and even lower than vanguard. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tha
the fiscal cliff is the maximum of what ghkts want. you've got howard dean saying we need to raise taxes on everybody, not just the rich. steny hoyer says the same thing. i think republicans have a better handle on the other side, but it's the democrats in transition on the mechanism. >> more on this story coming up. erick, donna, david, guys thank you. authorities trying to catch up with technology. in this case it's all about text messages and finding a way to use them against...
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but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious, as well. >> all right. so once again, here are the cliff notes right here. republicans on the hill are demanding trillions of dollars worth of debt reduction. that's pretty much fine with democrats who say the wealthy should foot the bill in the form of higher tax rates. and therein lies the catch because the republicans want the savings of federal spending cuts. that dispute blocking efforts to keep rates from rising on everyone. as scheduled on january 1st. this is a so-called fiscal cliff. january 1st. our news makers representative jim clyburn of south carolina, number three democrat in the house of representatives and number one i'm sure to a lot of people. hello. how are you? >> hey, don. thank you so much for having me. >> thanks for coming on. is speaker boehner right, though? as the clock is ticking, ticking toward january 1st, the talks haven't progressed in two weeks. is he right? >> well, i don't know that i'm as disappoi
but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious, as well. >> all right. so once again, here are the cliff notes right here. republicans on the hill are demanding trillions of dollars worth of debt reduction. that's pretty much fine with democrats who say the wealthy should foot the bill in the form of higher tax rates. and therein lies the catch because the republicans want the savings of...
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is it going to be easier to get bipartisan view on immigration or on the fiscal cliff? they're both very important in terms of getting business moving. >> i think there's more after consensus on immigration than on the fiscal cliff. >> let's talk about taxing overseas profits only where they are earned. explain that. >> well, that's really something where the united states is an outlier and the argument here is bring them back where they're earned. at the moment the problem is american companies have lots of money sitting overseas because they don't want to bring it back and be taxed in the united states. so that is something that puts as one of his eight points because it is holding back investments by american companies. >> all right. the new issue of "the economist" is "the world in 2013." daniel franklin. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. stay with us. much more on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes and lexus for audi than ever be
is it going to be easier to get bipartisan view on immigration or on the fiscal cliff? they're both very important in terms of getting business moving. >> i think there's more after consensus on immigration than on the fiscal cliff. >> let's talk about taxing overseas profits only where they are earned. explain that. >> well, that's really something where the united states is an outlier and the argument here is bring them back where they're earned. at the moment the problem is...
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but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> we can debate at length whether the november 6th election was a mandate, but i don't think we can debate the basics that it was a work order, a work order from the american people to members of congress and to the president, roll up your sleeves, work together and solve the problems. we got the message. did speaker boehner get the message? because the message was work together. what we hear from him is all of his pain and frustration and angst dealing with the tea party in his own caucus. well, there comes a point when he needs to look beyond his caucus to the house and to the nation. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." >> i guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. it's depressing, you're right, harold, we've seen this movie before. this was a year ago. this happened a year ago. and i know the media says oh, it's the republicans' fault any time the house doesn't completely fold into what the pres
but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> we can debate at length whether the november 6th election was a mandate, but i don't think we can debate the basics that it was a work order, a work order from the american people to members of congress and to the president, roll up your sleeves, work together and solve the problems. we got the message. did speaker boehner get the...
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that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." >>> back to "hardball." let's take making a deal here for all that at home who want to see republicans and democrats work together to avoid the fiscal cliff, we can bring you two lawmakers who are open to cutting a deal before the end of the year. with me are members from both sides of the aisle u.s. congressman lee tori, a republican from nebraska, and u.s. congressman jerry conley a democrat from nearby southern virginia. but first, i want to start with you. you told the omaha world herald this about republicans, we're screwed either way we have no leverage in these discussions. congressman, what did you mean by that? >> what i mean by that is that the president wants us to take a tax vote before he's willing to talk about anything else cutting or reforming, and republicans just aren't going to do that. so what he's doing is setting us up to be the fall people for going over the fiscal cliff. frankly, going over the fiscal cliff is a win for the president. so either way we're going to get it. >> but i don'
that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." >>> back to "hardball." let's take making a deal here for all that at home who want to see republicans and democrats work together to avoid the fiscal cliff, we can bring you two lawmakers who are open to cutting a deal before the end of the year. with me are members from both sides of the aisle u.s. congressman lee tori, a republican from nebraska, and u.s. congressman jerry conley a democrat...
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the spending cuts that would be imposed by the fiscal cliff would be devastating. it would send unemployment higher. it would cost jobs. the republicans, as peter says, are going to insist on some cuts anyway, so bottom line is we are going to see a weaker economy into the beginning of next year. probably one way or the other. now, the counter to that, peter, is that there are forces in the economy that are strengthening it. this energy boom that we've got, the natural gas, the amount of fracturing that we're doing, the fact that housing has been doing tremendously well, and interest rates remain very low with prices, so there's some sense that there's a bit of a renaissance on the horizon, and if the government doesn't mess that up too much, 2013 could end up being as good as 2012 if not a little better. i don't know if you completely disagree with that, peter, but i think there's enough good going on that it could offset the bad. >> to you think it could go up to 10% unemployment. do you agree with peter on that? >> i don't know. i don't know if it will go go up
the spending cuts that would be imposed by the fiscal cliff would be devastating. it would send unemployment higher. it would cost jobs. the republicans, as peter says, are going to insist on some cuts anyway, so bottom line is we are going to see a weaker economy into the beginning of next year. probably one way or the other. now, the counter to that, peter, is that there are forces in the economy that are strengthening it. this energy boom that we've got, the natural gas, the amount of...
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fiscal cliff or november's job numbers could be an anomaly and data thrown out the window in next month he a report. we have to see. >>> speaking of workers, ibm, a company at the forefront of employee benefits is overhauling the retirement benefits program, like many companies out there, they match employee 401(k) contributions 6 to 8% of pay every pay period. now the company says it is switching the matches it makes to once a year, so the amount employees get from ibm isn't changing but the workers that leave before december 15 matching date won't get their payment for the year. look out for companies to follow that move with similar ones of their own in attempt to save on employee benefits. be careful when you decide to leave the company you work for. bad timing could cost you. for more detailed coverage, tune into "your money" saturday at 1:00 p.m. eastern. paired with savory garlic shrimp. just $12.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. and introducing 7 lunch choices for just $7.99. bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to he
fiscal cliff or november's job numbers could be an anomaly and data thrown out the window in next month he a report. we have to see. >>> speaking of workers, ibm, a company at the forefront of employee benefits is overhauling the retirement benefits program, like many companies out there, they match employee 401(k) contributions 6 to 8% of pay every pay period. now the company says it is switching the matches it makes to once a year, so the amount employees get from ibm isn't changing...
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cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> speaker boehner made very clear at his press conference that he thinks the ball is in your court and the president's court. he says democrats have got to get series about spending cuts. where is the disconnect? >> i don't understand his brain so you should ask him. okay? >> reid making those comments to our own kate bolduan. i'm joined by dan lothian. dan, we're learning more about the white house plan to deal with the fiscal cliff. break it down for us. >> reporter: right. this is the plan that secretary -- treasury secretary timothy geithner took up to capitol hill yesterday. it calls for $1.6 trillion in tax increases over a ten-year period more than republicans had anticipated. in addition to that, $400 billion in spending cuts that will come later. much of that not really specified. we're looking at entitlements such as medicare. and then the plan also includes $50 billion
cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> speaker boehner made very clear at his press conference that he thinks the ball is in your court and the president's court. he says democrats have got to get series about spending cuts. where is the disconnect? >> i don't understand his brain so you should ask him. okay? >> reid making those comments to our own kate bolduan. i'm joined by dan...
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but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> reporter: house democratic leader nancy pelosi quickly dismissed boehner's remarks as a negotiating maneuver. >> i think they'll come around. it's a tactic. it's a tactic. >> reporter: but you hear a strikingly similar message from other top democratic leaders saying the ball is in the republicans' court. >> we are waiting for some specifics somewhere from our republican colleagues to show that they're serious on negotiations. >> reporter: as the country fast approaches the fiscal cliff, the two sides are talking past each other. democrats say they've laid down their marker hiking tax rates on wealthier americans. and it's up to republicans to propose specific spending cuts they want to entitlement programs. however, republicans say they've offered a concession putting revenue on the table. and they say it's now up to the president and his fellow democrats to feel some pain and propose cuts in medicare and medicaid. confu
but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> reporter: house democratic leader nancy pelosi quickly dismissed boehner's remarks as a negotiating maneuver. >> i think they'll come around. it's a tactic. it's a tactic. >> reporter: but you hear a strikingly similar message from other top democratic leaders saying the ball is in the republicans' court. >> we...
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. >>> but first, the president has a plan to avoid the fiscal cliff. but republican house speaker john boehner dismisses it as, and i'm quoting, la la land. the republicans offered their proposal, that happened about 24 hours ago. the white house quickly labels it as nothing new. business as usual, right? so how do we move beyond this stalemate in washington? we heard from the president, just a short time ago. our chief white house correspondent jessica yellin joins me now, jessica, the president spoke out, sat down in an interview with bloomberg tv, and in listening to the interview, did you hear any clues toward a possible compromise here? >> reporter: not new clues, brooke. the president laid down the marker that we heard from the white house consistently, which is they aren't moving until they hear the republicans agree to raise tax rates on the wealthiest. listen to what the president had to say. >> i think that, you know, we have the potential of getting a deal done, but it is going to require what i talked about during the campaign, which is a b
. >>> but first, the president has a plan to avoid the fiscal cliff. but republican house speaker john boehner dismisses it as, and i'm quoting, la la land. the republicans offered their proposal, that happened about 24 hours ago. the white house quickly labels it as nothing new. business as usual, right? so how do we move beyond this stalemate in washington? we heard from the president, just a short time ago. our chief white house correspondent jessica yellin joins me now, jessica,...
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what do you think should be hopping here to get a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff happening? >> i have no doubt that people are working hard to get a deal. we have the president re-elected and have a new congress, think it's right they get down to the business of sorting this out. i think america's got to think that what it needs to do is get growth in its economy, as well. and it needs to get growth by trade and exporting. and i think what we're missing at the moment is a global agreement whereby the big powers try to work on the economy. you have to have fiscal problems and you also have to have growth. that's the key for the future. there's a global deal waiting to be done, with china, europe, india also involved in this, and of course, america itself, where we could build the confidence that's necessary to get high levels of growth around the world. >> finally, gordon brown, i couldn't let you go without asking your view of the single biggest news story to hit the planet in the last week. it is, of course, the royal baby. >> it's incredibly important that we give them the
what do you think should be hopping here to get a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff happening? >> i have no doubt that people are working hard to get a deal. we have the president re-elected and have a new congress, think it's right they get down to the business of sorting this out. i think america's got to think that what it needs to do is get growth in its economy, as well. and it needs to get growth by trade and exporting. and i think what we're missing at the moment is a global agreement...
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having a fiscal cliff situation, going on inside the beltway, has a rippling reprecussions for people outside the beltway. we heard stories from people like ruthy who shared with us that her husband is a small business owner. he runs a catering company. because of the economic downturn, he has had fewer clients, which has meant they cannot make ends meet on her salary at a nonprofit and his salary to raise their two children, and, in fact, their phone was recently turned off. they're very concerned about having to pay more taxes just because congress can't end this fiscal cliff fiasco. >> you might have misunderstood the question. what do you think the mom kz do? what do you think, you know, families can do or should be doing to try to help the situation, obviously, because you've got some people who argue, well, you know, maybe there ought to be major cuts when it comes to medicare or medicaid or reforming social security, that kind of thing? >> well, we absolutely 1150% are hearing from moms across the country that it is not the time to cut medicaid. it is not the time to cut medica
having a fiscal cliff situation, going on inside the beltway, has a rippling reprecussions for people outside the beltway. we heard stories from people like ruthy who shared with us that her husband is a small business owner. he runs a catering company. because of the economic downturn, he has had fewer clients, which has meant they cannot make ends meet on her salary at a nonprofit and his salary to raise their two children, and, in fact, their phone was recently turned off. they're very...
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and even as a small business person, everyone talks about what the fiscal cliff could do to small business, what obama care can do for small business, but you said we shouldn't worry about that so much, that we should get some sort of compromise in order to keep moving and keep talking and keep moving forward? >> well, i think that it was pretty clear during the course of the election and since and even in the president's speech today where he said he's willing to give on some revenue and some spending cuts, he's proposed some, he's already passed some into law. and beyond that, just from my perspective, what i see is that we know that we're a confidence-based economy, we're 70% of the economy driven by consumer spending and anything that puts a crimp in consumer spending is not good for the economy. so to put a tax rise, a tax rate increase for the middle class makes no sense to me. someone who makes 50, 60, $70,000 a year will lose and will take away a lot of discretionary purchases from people like me and travel and a whole host of other areas. i hope our leaders in washington are liste
and even as a small business person, everyone talks about what the fiscal cliff could do to small business, what obama care can do for small business, but you said we shouldn't worry about that so much, that we should get some sort of compromise in order to keep moving and keep talking and keep moving forward? >> well, i think that it was pretty clear during the course of the election and since and even in the president's speech today where he said he's willing to give on some revenue and...
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cliff. guess what, the white house rejected it, calling the gop proposal unbalanced and not serious. translation? no tax hikes on the wealthy so democrats said forget about it. we thought you should take a look. it totals $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction over ten years. the part that stood out to us was $600 billion in proposed savings in medicare reforms. how? in part by raising the age of eligibility to 65 to maybe 67. turning down the gop proposal, dan pfieffer said, quote, it provides no details on which deductions they would eliminate, which loopholes they will close or which medicare savings they would achieve." let's head now to the white house and dan lothian. the white house will not offer a counter proposal, right? what's going on here? >> reporter: well, you know, i think the white house is digging in. the president said early on in this process that he would only sit down and really move forward, negotiate on this in any meaningful way if the tax hikes for the wealthy expired.
cliff. guess what, the white house rejected it, calling the gop proposal unbalanced and not serious. translation? no tax hikes on the wealthy so democrats said forget about it. we thought you should take a look. it totals $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction over ten years. the part that stood out to us was $600 billion in proposed savings in medicare reforms. how? in part by raising the age of eligibility to 65 to maybe 67. turning down the gop proposal, dan pfieffer said, quote, it provides no...
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the progress or lack of progress on the fiscal cliff talks and also wondering who is going to be the next treasury secretary. joining me steve rattner, wall street finance year, former head of president obama's auto task force. thanks for joining us, steve. first of all, what about the scenario that oh let's just let them go over the cliff and won't matter and the markets will view it as a nonevent. what do you think some. >> certainly going to matter. there's no question it's going to matter. it's going to matter to the markets. we don't know how much. this is an unprecedented situation, at least in my lifetime. we've had crises and debt ceilings and all that, but going over a cliff like this is a new one. the markets would be volatile, extremely -- a lot of downward pressure on them. and then the question would be how do businesses and consumers behave and quickly do they pull back? everyone knows the immediate impact from the government coming back and spending wouldn't be that great. the question then is how do businesses and consumers react? i don't think it will be a pretty sig
the progress or lack of progress on the fiscal cliff talks and also wondering who is going to be the next treasury secretary. joining me steve rattner, wall street finance year, former head of president obama's auto task force. thanks for joining us, steve. first of all, what about the scenario that oh let's just let them go over the cliff and won't matter and the markets will view it as a nonevent. what do you think some. >> certainly going to matter. there's no question it's going to...